Friendly Reminder: Misandry Isn’t Really Happening

by | February 29, 2016
filed under Feminism

Vintage anti-suffrage postcard

Vintage anti-suffrage postcard

Like all intersectional feminists who enjoy a healthy online life, I often encounter the male-identifying person who pouts and tries to have a field day whenever female-identifying feminists crack a joke about “male tears” or privileged men refusing to acknowledge their privilege.

“Misandry!” they shout at us, sometimes pointing accusatory fingers, sometimes pretending to take the high road, just helpfully explaining to us women how it feels to have their gender ridiculed.

One thing they all seem unable to grasp is the very real fact that misandry isn’t a real thing. Men have been systemically oppressing women throughout history and have been making jokes, insults, and laws that work against us without ever asking our opinion. Even today, men are systemically oppressing women and non-male identifying people, often unknowingly; yet, they still think it’s okay to claim “misandry” when a women is critical of their actions. As if centuries of oppression and forced submission is equivalent to a few jokes about “male tears.”

Many people think that just because misogyny is alive and well then misandry—its logical opposite—is also alive and well. But this isn’t true.

The dictionary does have the word “misandry” listed with a definition that is vague, at best, and could equally describe discrimination. The word exists in the dictionary as a complement to “misogyny,” wasn’t even invented until the 19th century and didn’t officially appear in a dictionary until 1952. The man behind encouraging the term is an MRA who has claimed that men are marginalized, citing the fact that it was only men who have been expected to do hard labour, or serve in the military and other notably dangerous professions.

This sounds a lot like other MRAs, who use such arguments to justify their (often violent) anti-feminist stance? They fail to take into account the fact that the reason men were expected to do all these things is because they wouldn’t let women do them. Men are the ones who made the exact laws and societies that women began fighting against. Yet, somehow men blame the feminist movement for their woes, claiming women have it easy and that any attack against men is misandry.

But misandry is only a theory, it’s not a practice.

Misandry is as real as reverse-racism is. White people, who have historically been in change and have successfully oppressed minority races, are not suddenly the victims of reverse racism just because we finally are entering in to an age in which minority races are able to loudly and accurately be critical of the history of racial oppression. White people are not suddenly the victims of reverse racism just because minority races point out the still-rampant examples of white privilege. White people are not the victims of white racism even when they are at the receiving end of slurs and insults like “cracker,” (a rare occurrence in itself).

They can be on the receiving end of discrimination, yes. There are many people who discriminate against white people and judge all white people based on the actions of some. But that is not racism; that is not oppression. A race that has systemically oppressed other races for centuries is not suddenly on the receiving end of the same oppression by members of racialized groups pointing out white privilege or calling out a white person’s racist slurs.

In the same way, misandry doesn’t exist in practice, but prejudice against men can. There are some people who truly believe that men are the problem and freely spout insults about men as a whole. But the difference between systemic oppression (misogyny) and a personal prejudice (the so-called misandry) is something that too many people fail to recognize.

Fundamentally, a group cannot be in a position of systemic power and continue to hold that position of power, then accuse the oppressed who are trying to create a fairer world that they are being oppressive. That does not make sense in any world.

Feminism isn’t looking to bring down men in some sort of savage revenge for centuries of abuse; feminism is simply looking to come to a common ground in which all genders are seen as equal in every way—where all genders have the same privileges and advantages. What feminism also asks is that men recognize their existing privilege and then use it to further a cause that is more humane. But, how is that supposed to happen if the slightest mention of any facts that prove that men have been and continue to (often unknowingly) be oppressors is met with shouts of “misandry”?

In defence of male tears jokes, I want to explain what it actually means. Some people seem to think it’s anti-feminist because it further instils the idea that men cannot show emotions. These people are missing the point, because men who have male tears thrown at them are not showing emotions that are traditionally considered feminine. They are usually angry or have had their egos bruised—both of which are trademark “male” traits. By playing the male tears card, we are pointing out that a person—usually always male—is “crying” because they have to begin to give up their monopoly on the world.

With feminism, non-males are beginning to have more and more of a voice and in order to claim the space that should rightfully be ours, men—who have held the power for so long that they are more than just drunk on it—have to give up some of their privilege. This is something that most men are just not willing to do. Calling out this behaviour is not misandry; it’s not even discrimination. It’s an attempt to further the cause of equality, and having to explain to people over and over again why misandry (and reverse racism) isn’t a thing is not only tiring, but a huge waste of resources.

We feminists don’t have time to educate people on semantics. So, take my word for it: misandry isn’t a real thing. It’s only a theory—it has never been a practice and likely never will.

Vintage anti-suffrage postcard via this article at Sociological Images.

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  • ShortMlee

    Thank you so much for this!

  • tay kyles

    The fallacious “institutional” argument again
    Purely typical

    • MorganCourtenay

      It’s a ridiculous argument. You can’t say that one form of bigotry is not equitable to another because the other is institutional without confronting the fact that no institutional bigotry would exist without the underlying prejudice.

  • Patrick Seiter

    Circumcision is a form of misandry.

    • Heather T

      No. Not equivalent.

      Circumcision of boys is not carried out with nails, broken glass, or whatever other sharp implement is handy. And for the most part, a circumcised/uncircumcised male can expect to enjoy sexual congress and to marry.

      FGM is carried out for the sole purpose of controlling a woman’s sexuality and to render her as an acceptable bride.

      To my knowledge, feminists are not actively promoting circumcision as one of their priorities. FWIW, you are more likely to find non-feminists to support circumcision – and one does not have to be a woman to be a non-feminist.

      As a mother and a feminist, I believe that children’s bodies are their own, and should be taught from the very beginning about their rights to bodily autonomy and self-governance. Including respecting those same rights in each and every person around them.

      • Heather T

        I’m pretty sure that’ s you typing under there, Patrick – and I will caution you against posting arm-length diatribe responses. I’ve got rules, and one of them is: be as reasonable, and as succinct, as possible.

        • Patrick Seiter

          I used bullet points :D

          Are you on Gender-Focus or the Disqus dashboard that you see the typing notification? Nevermind, I see it. Either I’ve never seen that before or it’s a new feature.

          • Heather T

            You did. :D

          • Toby Nixon

            What do I owe you but respect? Nothing.
            I don’t owe your kids, I don’t owe you, I don’t owe women anything. And if you don’t like things outside of what I have control of, you’ll have to go an change them.

            I still vote for abortion and healthcare for Women. I don’t demand that Women make me a Sandwhich, one because they probably can’t, two because I know how to cook better than you.

            Why would I need you? At all. for What Purpose.

            Now, if you’ll treat Men with the same respect you say you deserve, you might get somewhere. Until then, live in your paranoid fantasy.

      • Patrick Seiter

        1) Many female circumcisions are performed in hospitals, just like male circumcisions, even though illegal. I cannot send links because otherwise my post will be put into a moderation queue, so Google, “Egyptian girl dies during female circumcision operation”. It was done in a hospital.

        2) Many boys die from unclean circumcision practices. Look up, “32 boys dead in South African initiation season” and “Again! 14 boys dead in South African province, 141 in hospital, after botched circumcisions”. Where is the outcry to end MGM in Africa? If feminists believe in equality between the genders, they should be fighting to end FGM, which kills girls, and MGM, which kills boys.

        3) And male circumcision isn’t made with a focus on partnership and marriageability? Haven’t you heard “Well, he won’t be able to get a girlfriend if he’s not circumcised.” etc. etc.? Every single reason FGM is done in Africa: it is more hygienic, it looks better, no one will marry you if you aren’t circumcised, are all applied in America the same way.

        4) I didn’t say feminists are promoting circumcision. I said that some disregard the human rights of their sons by having them circumcised, while soapboxing on the need to respect bodily autonomy rights of girls.

        5) Well then, if you respected the human rights to bodily integrity, consent, and religious freedom of your sons (if you have any), then you are not of the misandrist feminists I am referring to. I have met feminists who don’t give a damn about the human rights of boys, and say things like, “you deserve 5 minutes of pain for 9 months of pregnancy”. Actually, it’s a lifetime of circumcision complications for men.

        • Heather T

          Well, fair enough. But I’m not sure how you expect feminists to fight on men’s behalf, when, to begin with, so much of our energy is already being spent dismantling the barriers we face in gaining enough social and political sway to be effective agents of change.

          • Patrick Seiter

            It’s actually easier to fight against all forms of mutilation in parts of Africa than it is to fight against _only_ FGM. For instance, I’ve read interviews of Africans who say (not verbatim, just recollection), “They tell us to stop cutting our girls, but say nothing about cutting our boys. It makes no sense, the hypocrites.” If we used the ideology of not cutting the genitals of all children, it would be much more pliable an argument. Otherwise, they’ll just go back to cutting girls because they don’t see a gendered difference between male/female mutilation like we do.

            This might only work in Central Africa though. North Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia all need a Quranist revolution (the Quran says we are created perfect, and says nothing about male or female circumcision. The hadiths directly contradict it) before we can stop male and female circumcision there completely. I’m a firm supporter of Kurdish independence, but they’re really bad when it comes to FGM.

            And to my knowledge, there isn’t widespread female genital mutilation in South Africa, so it will take some other sort of movement to save lives in that country.

          • Heather T

            “They tell us to stop cutting our girls, but say nothing about cutting our boys.”

            I’m not sure who the “they” are in this statement. Were the Africans referring to Western government? Were they referring to only the female feminists from the West? Was/were the speakers male Africans who were upset at having been cut? Or was it a deflection?

            In any case, yes yes yes, this is a children’s issue – and so perhaps men could align themselves with the groups spreading awareness of FGM and form partnership….as opposed to pushing the issue into stalemate.

          • Patrick Seiter

            Sorry for the late reply. I think they’re just referring to Westerners in general. I definitely don’t think they’d be referring to Western feminists. I also couldn’t find the video I was looking for, so take my account at face value until I find the source at some point in time.

          • If you look up ‘”DON’T Call It Mutilation??” Tucker Can’t Believe This Female Circumcision Advocate’, you’ll get a very clear idea of what it means to believe in “gender equitable cutting” from a pro-female circumcision woman, that is exactly in-tune with the video of the African man I mentioned a year ago.

          • Toby Nixon

            Sure you say that as you have it nice and easy. Tell me, you are a Single Mother?
            I’m MGTOW and I will never be chivalrous. Because those are yours.
            I’ve been Sterile since the medication given to me in Puberty took that.
            Now, you’ll just have to buck up and do for yourself.

        • Heather T

          And you always have the option of becoming the feminist that you expect us to be.

          • Patrick Seiter

            In a form or fashion I’ll always be a traditional feminist just like I’m a classical liberal. When people ask why I’m obsessed about male circumcision, I tell them that it isn’t just MGM but also FGM, intersex genital mutilation, foot binding, breast ironing, neck rings, declawing of cats, tail docking and ear cropping of dogs. Any non-medical mutilation of a person or animal’s body. And last I checked, the latter three for humans are all practiced on girls.

            It is my personal ideology and a growing ideology of millennials not to use labels to describe myself.

          • Heather T

            I see you as most qualified to lead the charge. Because the issue of MGM about which you are so passionate is often used as a disposable club to silence feminists, and left on the floor. You are the first person anywhere I’ve seen who’s shown that commitment and care to the issue itself. Bravo and thank you.

          • Patrick Seiter

            Feminists and MRAs both want the same thing, which is equality of the genders. They need to realize that they need each other more than they hate each other, because dichotomous opposition between the two will only result in continued inequality.

            Someday I’ll make a YouTube channel and explain the breadth of my ideology, which is the above but on a broader scale.

          • Heather T

            My feminism is intersectional; MRA’s do not want the same thing(s). Perhaps your dealings with them are different from my own, and that gives you a different perspective on them. Let’s just say they haven’t always been pleasant.

          • Patrick Seiter

            And I’m sure MRAs say the exact same thing about feminists: all feminists hate men, feminists want to destroy the family unit, etc. etc. but at the end of the day they’re all people, we’re all people. Sure, there are real misogynists and real misandrists out there that we might never be able to get through to, but if people never come to the table to TALK, to have a free exchange of ideas, and to have mutual respect for one-another, then we will never achieve the society that we all want, but disagree on how to get there.

            tl;dr: If you don’t want feminists to be broad-brushed as misandrists, don’t broad-brush MRAs as misogynists.

          • Heather T

            If MRA’s don’t want to be broad-brushed as misogynists, they need to work out an approach that doesn’t paint both feminists and non-feminists as inherently eeevil. As an intersectional feminist, I work within my own community to help other women examine the internalized sexism of which we may not be aware. When it comes to dealing with MRA’s, disagreement is one thing; being called a man-hating c*nt for having those disagreements is quite another.

          • Patrick Seiter

            What I’m trying to convey to you is that every standard you apply to MRAs not only can be applied to feminists, but is being applied to feminists. We have radical feminists that are not denounced by other feminists saying to kill all male babies, castrate men, neuter men until they are in a committed relationship, etc. Safe spaces, trigger warnings, and all of this extremist nonsense that is absolutely destroying the public image of feminism.

          • Heather T

            What feminists are demanding a holocaust of men? And why are trigger warnings seemingly cast as a natural equivalent to this?

            Trigger warnings are not about “avoiding hurting people’s feelings”; they are an opportunity for abuse survivors to decide for themselves whether or not they are, at that given moment, able to process potentially triggering material. To provide this warning, is to respect their ability to make these decisions for themselves.

            PTSD is not chosen, it is an imposed condition – and may cause physical reactions in its sufferers which are wholly beyond their conscious control. Being hostile and contemptuous of the things we can do to assist them is unthinkingly cruel – and a sign of assumed entitlement to our own convenience and superiority.

            And I’m saying this not as a feminist, but as an advocate for disability rights.

          • Toby Nixon

            Generally, when I try to get Feminists to debate, this is what happens. You know you’ll have to allow a dialog first, instead of just saying, Men are stupid and have no business in gender topics.

            There are thousands of Feminists doing this, several feminists in this thread are doing this and in all probability, you will dismiss me as a Stupid Man yourself. Thanks for that ahead of time.

          • Heather T

            No one owes you their time and/or attention; nor does anyone owe anyone else a public performance at their convenience.

            Feminists are not a monolith, and not one of us can say that we speak for all of the rest. The only one I see doing that is you.


          • Heather T

            Re: “in all probability, you will dismiss me as a Stupid Man yourself. Thanks for that ahead of time.

            You may thank yourself instead, as you are the one anticipating your own victimhood, as it were.

            I, however, have all the evidence I require in order to determine that you are not prepared to treat me as I was prepared to treat you – – as an individual.

          • Heather T

            And I will add that MRA’s are but one part of a broader sphere. For instance, the media has a vested interest in maintaining conflict between people, and rigidly enforcing gender roles – for the purpose of more easily marketing to them as separate and distinct groups.

          • Heather T

            Re: “feminists want to destroy the family unit”:

            I hear this one a lot — and I have a question as to what “family unit” refers to. Does this mean “traditional structure” of family….or does it refer to women wanting to get out of relationships that are abusive or not satisfactory?

          • Patrick Seiter

            I could project what others believe but this isn’t my opinion one way or the other. Basically it’s that every child should be raised by two parents if at all possible.

          • Heather T

            Yes, and those two parents are assumed to be a man and a woman….with a lot of other traditional assumptions thrown in. As I’ve obliquely suggested earlier, MRA started out with the reasonable goal of obtaining equal custody rights in family courts – and the original founders seem quite embarrassed by what their movement has been turned into. Sort of like what happened to MADD.

          • Heather T

            Whatever our opinions, I think that everyone should challenge their own beliefs by identifying and interrogating their source. By subjecting our own beliefs to rigorous examination, we can begin to make the distinction between what opinions are truly our own – and what opinions were merely handed down to us by others.

          • Thankfully Heather and I had a very rigorous discussion on the evils of male circumcision and how it’s wrong to cosmetically alter any children, no matter the sex.

          • Heather T

            Yep. We did. And yes, it is. Thanks, @NobleUplift.

          • Toby Nixon

            I’ve never heard an MRA say that. I room with several and I am the Meme maker for a Bunch of Men’s Rights Groups. Can you give a Reference?

          • Toby Nixon

            Why can’t I get out of a “relationship that are abusive or not satisfactory?” Why can’t Men have this independence? How much Alimony are you receiving?

          • Toby Nixon

            In Ohio, a Woman tried to knife another woman in my Home. I stopped it, I took the knife from one woman and I was obligated to allow her to stay in my home because we had had SEX.

            That’s the law in OHIO. Not that she was hitting me or assaulting me. But she was a Woman and we had had sex. I can look up the law for you if you can’t take my word for it.

            You can get up and leave anytime you like. But it’s my house and if I want to leave, It’s Partner Neglect. Right?

            I mean I can’t have kids, she’d had a hysterectomy. Why do I need to pay for her to live with me? What is the point. She wasn’t paying rent, wasn’t doing housework. As she admitted in the Partner Neglect Suit.

            I won the case, but the law is on the books. She lost because she admitted she expected the payment of her bills for sex. Even just one time.

            I won the case against the state of ohio and the feminists who had hired the lawyers for her.

            Just remember those words,”the lifestyle she has become accustomed to.” Which is what a Man has to maintain after a Marriage, when a Woman wants to leave on a whim.

          • Heather T

            It’s “the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed” – and I’m listening to you complain about winning a case by transcending a law that I did not write.

            Nor am I the one making the conflation between a relationship that is abusive and one that is merely “unsatisfactory”.

          • Heather T

            Pardon the number of replies, but:
            Re: “they’re all people, we’re all people.”

            Women have not until fairly recently enjoyed the status of “person” under the law. We are still reeling from that fact.

          • Toby Nixon

            Okay, Tell this MRA what he wants exactly?

            Wait, let me guess, the slavery of Women?

            No, if you say anything else than Women being treated the same in Law as Men and Men being given the same respect as Women.

            As well as the right to be independent of Women.

            The ability to not have to worry about a Woman attempting to use sexual desire to manipulate us for Money.

            it’s very short sighted of you to assume what MRA’s want.

            it’s called a Strawman Argument. Where you make up an argument and instead of arguing the persons argument with them, you argue this other false outlook with them.

            So tell me again what MRA want? Hmm?

            I just don’t think you believe that Men should be treated with respect or dignity. That you want privileges of being a Woman and the Rights of a Man as well. Well if we are treated equally, then there is no privileges at all are there? It maybe unbalanced at first. You’ll have to go out there under your own initiative and make that world you envision it should be, instead of waiting for a man to do it for you.

            But you are Super Woman. And you can do anything Right? Well go out there on your Merit of being a woman and knowing everything and your special powers of Feminine intuition and become the boss, take over the world, while you are young and still know everything.


      • Toby Nixon

        Oh, so you support Male Circumcision?

        “Feminists are not actively promoting circumcision as one of their priorities.” No, no it’s mandatory by law and therefore it doesn’t have to be ‘promoted’ anymore. It’s just supported. And yes, it asserts female dominance. And yes Feminists thought it was a huge victory, were marching in the streets for it…

        You know it’s done to prevent the spread of STD’s? Because of the Foreskin being a Skin Flap?
        You know that there’s lots of places on a Woman’s Body for STD’s to Hide, why don’t we just cut it all out?

        I mean, is that the logic of Male Circumcision? Or are you trying to say that it’s for a different purpose? Maybe some different Reason perhaps?

        Cause I bet you can’t name one other reason.

        You say male circumcison is carried out shortly after birth? No, not traditionally and is still practiced well into the teens.

        You say Men don’t need the foreskin and it doesn’t have any feeling? Well you don’t need your Clitoris either, in that case.

        You really don’t see how Male and Female Circumcision is related. But I do.

        C’mere, let’s make sure there’s no place for STD’s to Hide. *Pulls out Lawnmower Sling Blade*

        *Laughs* If it’s good for Men, it has to be good for Women Right?

        • Heather T

          Nowhere have I said that I support male circumcision. And I’m done with babysitting those who deliberately misrepresent my arguments in bad faith.

          Now fuck off.

          • Toby Nixon

            But you just freaking told him what an MRA believed. Hypocrite much?

          • Heather T

            As a self-identified MRA, you present as a person arriving to argue in very bad faith.

            MRA’s come with a set of predictable and recycled arguments which are lifted from a specific array of websites.

            The original purpose of MRA’s involved the addressing of equal custody rights for men.

            Since that time, the movement has been hijacked by particular men who re-purposed it as the context in which to vent their bitter hatred towards women. Those men are an embarrassment to the movement’s founders, who want nothing to do with them whatsoever.

          • Toby Nixon

            You don’t have a sense of humor do you?

          • Heather T

            Oh, but I do. Perhaps not so much at the moment (see previous response from me to you).

          • Toby Nixon

            See, it doesn’t even stand up under a rhetorical argument. God, stop reading into things. I am a Horror writer. I’m fucking creepy, it’s my job. What are you like 20? Grow up.

          • Toby Nixon

            Yes, you’ve been Manterrupted by an MRA, in a public post, in your public comment. Because you were giving a strawman argument. Then you tried to chase away an MRA because he was trying to correct your Misrepresentation of MRAs. Is that correct? Cause I have a screenshot of that shit.

            Yes, fucking circumcision is some creepy shit. They cut the most tender part of your body OFF! Male Circumcisions are not at all a practice steeped in Medical Practice. The reason for it is silly and if you apply it to a Woman like you do with a Man, well just like everything else…

          • Heather T

            JFC, are you still here jerking off by selecting my posts to misrepresent them for your own purpose? It’s fair to say that there are many people in the Disqus community who are familiar with me and what I’m about – – and those particular occasions in which certain commenters and I were able to reach some understanding with each other, are that in which I take considerable satisfaction.

            But here’s the thing, ten-months-later-Toby:

            I have this thing called A Life; and a life in which I am, as it happens, currently engaged in assisting someone with an emotionally devastating event.

            To quote Ted from Breaking Bad, “Being someone’s rock takes everything you got” – and that’s what I’m giving it, Toby – everything I got.

            I can’t afford you right now.

            Thanks in advance for your understanding.

          • Toby Nixon

            I can be here if I want and you can’t scare me off Bully Woman. And you are making it Sexual not me. No one has mentioned anything sexual and the suggestion is inappropriate. What is your problem, can’t you be respectful?

          • Heather T

            You, however, apparently take a great deal of pleasure in rubbing a woman’s face in it.

            Doesn’t matter what. Just about anything will do.

          • Toby Nixon

            Yes, since you are a Feminists and Feminists are all Women and Feminists pushed for Male circumcision, well, I guess you certainly support male circumcision.

            How did I reach that conclusion, because you said all MRA’s and MGTOW are Woman haters like me.

          • Heather T

            If the shoe don’t fit, don’t wear it.

          • Heather T

            Re: “Feminists pushed for Male circumcision“:

            Citation needed.

          • Toby Nixon

            You can’t keep telling me to leave, this is a public discussion and your comment is public. You are literally accusing me of sexual harassment, while accusing me of self sexual gratification….

            Even if you could prove that I was doing it, which you would have to do that first, you would then have to show where in the discussion that I made a sexual reference that was off topic.

            I am not going to stop commenting just because you BOSS ME TO DO SO.

            You are not the boss of me. You can’t tell someone they cannot comment on a gender discussion, just because of their gender or their opinion disagrees with yours.

            If you do not want me to comment, you’ll have to go cause I am too big for you to move.

          • Heather T

            I can, however, draw and enforce my own boundaries. You’re bouncing all over my posts like this is a free-for-all – whereas I have rules of engagement. And it’s starting to become apparent that you are a little too young and immature to sit at this particular table.

          • Toby Nixon

            You cannot make me leave. I can comment here all I like. La la la la la.

  • John doe

    The definition isn’t vague at all. It comes from the Greek misos which is hatred, and aner which is man. The same holds true for misogyny only the Greek gune base word means woman. So… hatred of men, or hatred of women. You can argue about the endless premutations these forms of hatred will manifest themselves in, but empirically both these words are very specific in what they describe. I don’t think you can speak for 3.5 billion women on this planet and say misandry doesn’t exist. There are women who hate men. I have met women who have flat out told me this. I think you have a concern that acknowledging the existence of misandry is going to distract attention away from feminist issues, and gender equality. I think it will to a certain extent, but if you don’t even acknowledge the existence of misandry how are you going to frame an argument against that distraction? You lose credibility on the doesn’t exist argument, because most people have seen examples of misandry–however infrequent, it has been frequent enough that a non-existence argument doesn’t fly.

    • Divya

      Did you not hear what she said? There are women who discriminate against men and have prejudice against them, but it isn’t systematic or actually practiced in society.

      • Alias Darker

        but it’s still real , which contradicts the whole article . hatred of men is as real as hatred of women . most men are just better physically equipped to handle full on misandry than women are for misogyny … that must be the point you were trying to twist .

        • Heather T

          Re: “hatred of men is as real as hatred of women . most men are just better physically equipped to handle full on misandry than women are for misogyny

          Which is to acknowledge that men are also “better physically equipped” to both express their hatred of women – and to continually enforce its natural extension: oppression.

          Why on Earth would any woman hate men for that?

          You talk as if men’s and women’s “hatred” of each other springs from the same source. Which it doesn’t.

          Men who hate women hate them for who they are. Women who hate men hate them for what they’ve done to them.

          • Alias Darker

            so women don’t hurt men ? men don’t get scarred by women ? is that what you’re saying ?

          • Heather T


          • Stormtrooper

            “Sure”? How damn lazy can you be?

      • noxteryn

        So, when the law says that only men should be forced to fight and die in wars, is that not a systemic issue? Is the military not an institution of society? Men being given higher sentences than women when convicted of the same crime isn’t a systemic issue? Are courts not an institution of society? When men aren’t hired as babysitters or teachers for young children, is that not discrimination based on their gender under the assumption that men are unfit care-givers or even pedophiles? These are just two of the many facets of misandry.

        • calabasa

          Again…that is all due to misogyny, not misandry. You really have a limited understanding of how the world works, don’t you?

          • Toby Nixon

            So, please explain how YOU don’t think that Men are as Intelligent, emphatic and as decent persons as Women are, while you say, “Misandry isn’t real”.

            I read all your comments here, it’s very clear that you Not only Hate Men, but you clearly don’t treat them as or want them to be your political EQUAL.

            So yes, you are a great example that Misandry is REAL. You are the definition of it.

            When are you planning to sentence and execute us for being born Male?


          • calabasa

            Misandry isn’t real, just as reverse racism isn’t real.

            I emphatically believe that without our current patriarchal system men could be as empathetic as women, yes. If I truly believed that the ongoing violence of men were both intrinsic to male nature and incurable rather than due to a hierarchical imbalance then I might be in favor of some kind of social control of men, yes. However, I don’t believe that, and so instead I am in favor of patient nonviolent resistance, however long it takes. That includes standing up to oppressive gaslighting techniques such as the denial, blame deflection, projection, and reversal on display in sexist men’s replies to this article.

            In my experience, the people who most strongly believe men can’t be better people are sexist men.

          • Toby Nixon

            No, you just assume that Men are Bad, or inferior.
            As you’ve so neatly pointed out, you believe that MGTOW is Sexist. That is to say you believe that MGTOW doesn’t believe that Women are equals. That’s completely untrue.

            The idea of MGTOW runs diametric to your idea that Men somehow are incapable of living life without contact with Women. Some MGTOW’s have been living without contact with Women, for a long time. Not because we are ugly, or Stupid or Crazy or Poor. Because they think they can get more accomplished in life and avoid things like False Rape Accusations and Financial Support of Women by Contract… By that I mean marriage.

            Feminists are Demanding Marriage. Because we owe something to them.

            MGTOW is demanding the Right to be independent. DEMANDING that Women be independent and earn their own way, using the rights and privileges, given by the vote of Men to Women.

            And as of yet, Feminists are not satisfied with having Equal Rights. For with Equal Rights should come Equal participation and Equal personal responsibility.

            Yet all we ever get is dumped on.

            No, this is the Internet. Call the Cops. I’m Mantterupting and Mansplaining, Gender is Sex Right? So a Man talking about Gender ISSUES is Sexually Harassing you, Right? It’s not the first time I’ve heard that and


            I just need to be shown my place and do whatever the crap you say, because you are a woman and I am an inferior.

            Well, no, I have rights too and it’s always been Men who protect those rights.

            So if you don’t want me to have any rights whatsoever to make up my own mind or decisions, then you don’t want equality and you don’t want justice. You want DOMINANCE, SUBJUGATION and MASTERY of MEN.

            You want me to sit down and Shut Up about Paternal Rights, Male Circumcision, Male Disposability, Female Perpetrators of Violence and Female Pedophilia. And I won’t. I am not going to. I’m a big boy and no one on this planet can make me. I dare you.

            And if that’s so and you are a feminist, then Feminism has nothing at all to do with equality.


          • Heather T

            Re: “MGTOW“: So why can’t they also live without having to keep coming back to tell women they’re leaving? Just go already. Go in Peace.

          • Heather T

            Re: “You want DOMINANCE, SUBJUGATION and MASTERY of MEN.“:

            LOL. Sounds like someone wants us to come over.

            Now then….what was that you were saying earlier – something about a “sense of humour”?

          • Toby Nixon

            Have fun with your bossiness lady, because I do not have to do anything that a Woman tells me for any reason. Ever. You cannot keep me from sharing my opinion and I will not be accused of Sexual Misconduct by a TROLL ACCOUNT.

            So if you don’t want to argue, then ignore me. Because I have the right to argue the subject.

            Call the Police, contact Disqus, because major companies have sued me and lost because the defintion of sexual misconduct doesn’t cover

            Disagreement with Women in a Public Forum. It doesn’t. This was GamerGate and other high profile cases. And if Disqus sides with you and agrees with you, it could be biased. That means that when or if it deletes my account, which it hasn’t and won’t because I haven’t done anything wrong and you can’t just tell me to SHUT UP.

            Yes, that is harassment and you and your buddies had better stop with the sexual references or it will be you who are sued for sexual harassment.

            You don’t have to like it. But you can’t tell me not to comment on a public post. I have that right. You have the right to ignore me.

            That’s it.

            Call the police, file a lawsuit. I will give you my address and you can send me a summons. Please, it would be a pleasure, because in court, I actually get a defense. I can counter-sue you for the trouble and if you lose and I’m right that you can’t tell me to leave and there is no grounds for the claims that I have in any way sexually harassed you. Sexually harassed YOU as in tried to speak to you about sexual matters.

            Which you and your friend have made reference to, which is an accusation and slander.

            I can talk about gender issues and say my side. You can call it Mansplaining, but I can do it, it’s called freedom of speech.

            You’re a horrible person for trying to make me stop commenting on a public post.

          • Heather T


            Give me your address, Toby.

          • Heather T

            Toby fails to grasp how his hectoring also falls somewhere upon an entire spectrum of unwanted behaviors directed towards women and girls worldwide.

            And where the law or other public space or institution fails to set in place policies which protect women from harrassment – that is where you will find men such as Toby. His presence is no accident; rather, he’s here (and by his own admission, however inadvertent) because of how that failure helps enable his behaviors.

          • 78stonewobble

            “1. Toby fails to grasp how his hectoring also falls somewhere upon an entire spectrum of unwanted behaviors directed towards women and girls worldwide.

            2. And where the law or other public space or institution fails to set in place policies which protect women from harrassment – that is where you will find men such as Toby. His presence is no accident; rather, he’s here (and by his own admission, however inadvertent) because of how that failure helps enable his behaviors.

            3. “Ignore me” he says – as he simultaneously demands our attention – and our silence – as he goes about putting his own words into our mouths while expecting no protest.

            As sickening a caricature as I’ve seen in some time.”

            1. No, correcting people that are factually incorrect is not hectoring.

            2. Unless the law or other public space or institution also protects men from you and eg. this article… Then you have just engaged in systematic sexist discrimination.

            3. Strawman… he was pointing out you have agency and selfdetermination… If you don’t like what he says, you can ignore it or you can attempt the dialogue at your own discression.

            Unless offcourse you’re suggesting that you are unable to make decisions for yourself?

          • 78stonewobble

            “1. Misandry isn’t real, 2. just as reverse racism isn’t real.

            3. I emphatically believe that without our current patriarchal system 4. men could be as empathetic as women, yes. 5. If I truly believed that the ongoing violence of men were both intrinsic to male nature and incurable rather than due to a hierarchical imbalance then I might be in favor of some kind of social control of men, yes. 6. However, I don’t believe that, and so instead I am in favor of patient nonviolent resistance, however long it takes. 7. That includes standing up to oppressive gaslighting techniques such as the denial, blame deflection, projection, and reversal on display in sexist men’s replies to this article.

            8. In my experience, the people who most strongly believe men can’t be better people are sexist men.”

            1. Misandry is defined as hatred against men. It’s real… You need to invent another word for your other meaning and get that accepted to the dictionary.

            2. It’s not… it’s just called racism.

            3. Belief is not fact.

            4. Generalizing a group of people solely due to their gender.

            5. Ignoring womens violence… And holy fuck a sexist attitude akin to the 1930’s and 40’s attitude towards jews.

            6. How very gracious of you that you don’t wanna remove people’s rights solely due to their gender, but don’t really find anything wrong in that tho…

            7. Does denial, blame deflection, projection and reversal on display apply to sexist women’s replies to this article as well?

            8. In my experience… people who so casually generalize and are willing to discriminate solely based on 1 single characteristic are horrible people… Sexists, racists, age’ists and so forth…

            You are a horrible unempathetic generalizing sexist person incapable of understanding why sexism, racism and any other kind of x’ism is bad and applying that logic to yourself and your own arguments.

          • calabasa

            In my experience, people like you are incurably stupid. Let’s hope you die out and leave no one behind! Cheers!

          • 78stonewobble

            “1. In my experience, people like you are incurably stupid. 2. Let’s hope you die out and leave no one behind! Cheers!”

            1. I was actually measured at 128 iq under rather extreme stress.

            2. Again, not exactly a sane response to someone disagreeing…

          • calabasa

            And you’re a fucking idiot mansplaining something of which he has no conception.

            Go fuck yourself. Oh, and well you’re at it, get over yourself.

            Fucking idiot. I honestly hope you die.

          • 78stonewobble

            “1. And you’re a fucking idiot mansplaining something of which he has no conception.

            2. Go fuck yourself. Oh, and well you’re at it, get over yourself.

            3. Fucking idiot. I honestly hope you die.”

            1. That’s sexist… And kinda ironic considering the article is “womansplaining”, but you don’t have a problem with that.

            PS: It’s also not a counter argument to anything.

            2. That’s probably a response best saved for truely horrific people. Like the author, the person I was responding to and yourself.

            PS: It’s also not a counter argument to anything.

            3. Well, not exactly a response from a wellbalance individual, that is assured in their convictions and arguments, is it now?

            PS: It’s also not a counter argument to anything.

          • Heather T

            All men are a rape? When did this happen?!

        • Heather T

          Re: Military service:

          You have some nerve coming on here to complain about “the law” not forcing women into military service, at a time when the military is itself still struggling to come to terms with male-on-female rape within and amongst its own ranks.

          And before women began serving in the numbers they are today, the rapists who were present in the military were attacking and raping their own male comrades. And from whom did I learn this fact? A feminist. It was women who broke that code of silence to clear the way for men to begin coming forward.

          And what you are really suggesting is that women should not only “fight and die in wars” – but also that women should be willing to kill men in order to live as their equals.

          And in order for a society to prepare women for war, they must, from a young age, be able to see themselves and their potential as warriors and heroes through mainstream culture.

          But, I mean, some men can’t even tolerate the idea of fictional female “Ghostbusters” without losing their everloviing minds.

        • Heather T

          Re: “Babysitters ‘n teachers”:

          Teaching was one of the few professions to which women could gain access – and once women had established themselves within it, men abandoned that profession as something “not worth doing”.

          And also?

          No one is stopping you from hiring a male babysitter for your 2-year-old or whatever – so knock yourself out, sport.

          • Arta

            I work “in the western world” as a teacher at primary school. In my country education is public, that means there is not an individual who choose teachers and can easily discriminate them…you have to graduate (4-5 years at university, sometimes a year more if you also want to take an abilitation as assistant teacher), then you have to win a public concourse. Well, I remember that when I studied at “education sciences”there were no more than 3 boys out of 100 freshmen students. When a boy choose not to attend a course to become a primary school teacher is it a free choice? Surely none prevents them to do it…but maybe they were influenced in their choice ..exactly like girls who choose not to attend a technology course.

          • Heather T

            When a boy choose not to attend a course to become a primary school teacher is it a free choice? Surely none prevents them to do it…but maybe they were influenced in their choice ..exactly like girls who choose not to attend a technology course.

            Any choice may be more meaningfully defined as being “both “free” and as a “choice”, if/when it is not informed by pre-existing pressures to conform to gender roles,

            ETA: Re: “Exactly” (like girls): Your two examples are not, in fact, equivalent to each other.

          • Arta

            They’re not completely equivalent, of course, but I always hear (or read) about men complaining that there are not enough men in primary education (perceived as a “comfortable” job) , so I tried to explain my point of view.

          • Heather T

            Fair enough. Yes. But generally speaking, when the level of women’s participation in a particular profession reaches a certain point, it is abandoned by men as being “women’s work”, and thus “beneath” them; whereas women are chased out of professions which are perceived to be “men’s-only” spaces.

        • Heather T

          The possibility that pedophiles specifically seek out the kinds of jobs which will afford them unfettered access to children and other vulnerable persons never occurred to you, I reckon.

          • 78stonewobble

            “The possibility that pedophiles and other predators specifically seek out the kinds of jobs which will afford them unfettered access to children and other vulnerable persons never occurred to you, I reckon.”

            Actually women commits a majority of child abuses (overall, not sexual)… Maybe society should judge all women by that?

      • Panayioti Diacopoulos

        There’s way more laws that go against men than laws against women in the west. In fact, feminism got rid of those, while men still get punished for whatever bad thing. Women are punished less for the exact same crime as the man. Socially, women are treated much nicer than men for the exact same thing. Keep talking about your “oppression”.
        Do us all a favour and help other women of need, like the women in the Middle East.

        • Heather T

          Re: “Do us all a favour and help other women of need, like the women in the Middle East“:

          Which is to basically demand that women help each other as a “favour” to “all us men”.

          Honestly, do you even hear yourself sometimes?

          • 78stonewobble

            “Bold emphasis mine

            Re: other women of need:

            Which is to acknowledge that the women to whom you are speaking are also women of need.

            And re: “Do us all a favour and help other women of need, like the women in the Middle East”:

            Which is to basically demand that women help each other as a “favour” to “all us men”.

            Honestly. Do you even hear yourself sometimes?


            Women in the Middle East are themselves actively working on the issues they face.

            One of the things you need to understand is that violence against women is normalized through the specific cultural context of each individual society in which it occurs. Which is why most people are able to recognize and identify violence and abuse for what it is – – provided that that violence and abuse are being observed in cultures other than one’s own.

            I will ask nicely. Stop trying to weaponize those “poor women” “Over There” as your disposable tools of guilt and distraction. To do so is to engage in yet more abuse – both towards them, and towards the women whom you are trying to distract.”

            You do know that the woman is the aggressor in most couple violence among younger couples in the US… So how does US culture need to chance so womens violence against men is not so normalized as it apparently is in the US?

      • Toby Nixon

        Actually, I have to but point to the Feminist groups on this page trying to silence men and accuse them of sexual misconduct by disagreeing with them as the very definition of a Societal Construct. The very fact that you are okay with their behavior is Misandry or Matriarchy.

      • 78stonewobble

        “Did you not hear what she said? There are women who discriminate against men and have prejudice against them, but it isn’t systematic or actually practiced in society.”

        Then you need to invent a new word for that, rather than redefine an existing word for the sole purpose of exculpation.

        EDIT and PS: The only systematic sexist discrimination, that I know off, is when public school systems, systematically educates young girls better than young boys. Which seems to be the trend…

  • CaMo

    I know women who actively identify themselves as misandrists. Therefore, misandry exists.
    Thank you and goodnight.

    • Divya

      They might be prejudiced against guys, but how does it affect you? There r MRAs advocating for MGTOW, but they don’t necessarily affect women since they want to create a separate society away form them. In the same way, if there r women who actively identify as misandrists, how does it affect you? It’s a personal bias, yes, but it’s not institutionial. Good try trying to slander a full page argument with just a few words though.

      • Toby Nixon

        Who said we want a separate society? This is our society. We made it. If you want it to be without men or you want a slave state, then you take your CUCKS and go to the Amazon.

        • Heather T

          No, it’s not “your society” and you did not “make it” all by yourself. You’re just trying to take the credit by invisiblizing the contributions of women.

          That’s the very definition of slavery.

          ETA: And how can there be any “CUCKS” to take along if they are both defined and created by other men?

      • Heather T

        MGTOW who keep coming back to say they’re leaving.


      • MorganCourtenay

        The “but it’s not institutional” argument is feeble. Without personal bias, you don’t have institutional oppression. So it’s not acceptable either way.

  • If you actually went by dictionary definitions and not sociology-studies definitions, you would realize that words like sexism, racism, misogyny, and misandry don’t specify whether they’re institutionalized or systemic or systematic. Sociology is what has added those extra definitions onto the words, and you need to know that only those who worship the altar of sociology accept the definitions you are shoving forth.

    Why not join the rest of the English-speaking world and use the REAL definitions of the words. Thanks.

  • Tom

    Racism = discrimination based on race. It has nothing to do with oppression? Why this concerted effort to redefine words to suit your political agenda?

  • Tom

    Misogyny = contempt for women. Misandry = contempt for men. There is nothing institutional about it. Nowhere does oppression even come into the equation. Once again, the only systemic institution thing that comes close to the equation is the systemic attempt to redefine these words to suit your political agenda.

    • crydiego

      What was the second thing again?

  • Peter Smythe

    You seem to operate under the assumption that we all use “prejudice plus [collective] power.”

    That’s almost certainly not the definition anyone claiming something is misandrist is using.

    Misandry under the “prejudice, power or not” definition is absolutely a real thing. Maybe not as common as misogyny, but it’s still completely real. HOLISTIC SYSTEMATIC misandry is only a hypothetical idea.

    Also, “take our word for it, it isn’t a thing” is the most intellectually lazy position I can think of.

    Misandry is any and all hate or discrimination against men, just like misogyny is any and all hate or discrimination against women.

  • cj

    “Fundamentally, a group cannot be in a position of systemic power and continue to hold that position of power, then accuse the oppressed who are trying to create a fairer world that they are being oppressive. That does not make sense in any world.”

    Can you address the situation of a MRA being also a WRA and being removed from a feminism group when they suggest that equality is the goal, and not subjugation of the opposite gender?

    “What feminism also asks is that men recognize their existing privilege and then use it to further a cause that is more humane.”

    Wait, did you not just say in the previous paragraph that one cannot truly support the feminist movement if they hold a position of power, eg privilege? Is it even possible for a man to benefit feminism by using male privilege?

  • Sabrina Zakrowski

    No forms of systemic forms of misandry exist? Are you kidding me? What would you call the Selective Service? Young American men, and only men, are forced by the government to register with Selective Service between the ages of 18-26. If they don’t they are barred by law from receiving benefits like financial aid to go to college in addition to other penalties. Why do we have it? So if some politicians want to fully reinstate the draft the names are already in the hat to pull for soldiers to fight their wars. Anyone who says that the draft was ended after Vietnam is either misinformed or a liar. They just shoved it onto the back burner. Why are male victims of rape, sexual harassment, and domestic violence not taken as seriously as female ones? Why do we vehemently object to FGM but line up like sheep to cut the genitals of our sons? And we’re going to say with these practices and others that systemic forms of misandry don’t exist? Bull.

  • Dharmakyah Lai

    People don’t listen to this author, she is the same person who wrote the article about how manspreading is a “genuine” issue.

  • jaejae123

    Psychological and emotional (and other) abuse, is abuse. I’ve suffered it from women in the situation of being the only man in the situation of being the only man among 10 women. They emotionally and psychologically abused me. For three years. And I had no way to get out. abuse is abuse. I sought psychiatric help and justice was served through assistance. Abuse is abuse.

  • Panayioti Diacopoulos

    This is the most retarded artilce I have ever read. Racism is racism, sexism is sexism. End of story.

    • Heather T

      Re: “This is the most retarded artilce I have ever read“:


  • Toby Nixon

    So this article says there is no hate of Men? Really, well obviously she’s not reading the comments and seeing the False Accusations of Sexual Misconduct and the Threats and the Ad Hominem attacks.

    I would very quickly say that the effort on the part of these Troll accounts to scare Men off talking in Gender discussions, is misandry. Because Men are just supposed to accept what women decree without question. I would say that many of the Women doing this have Narcissistic personality disorder, colloquially known as Princess Disorder.

    They literally believe that a Man shouldn’t have a voice in Gender Discussion and according to the typical Feminist playbook, make false accusations to get rid of them when pure intimidation won’t.

  • MorganCourtenay

    Something else that isn’t real: privilege. The concept is nebulous, poorly-defined and advances nothing in the cause of justice. Why? Firstly, there’s the small thing of it being completely invisible, and thus asking for people to “give up some of their privilege” is absurd– unless this author can provide an instruction manual on how to do so. Secondly, no conversations on privilege will ever supersede the far more useful advice of treating everyone equally– something that can ACTUALLY be done, because equal treatment, unlike privilege, is tangible. Thirdly, conversations on privilege don’t actually advance anything to the cause of justice because any privilege that does exist has an economic basis. Removing that basis would remove the so-called privilege. You can only systematically oppress people if you have the economic power to do so. That doesn’t mean that bigotry doesn’t exist without economics. But it does mean that applyign the privilege label to one’s race or one’s gender is nonsensical, because the kind of power required to cause mass oppression has largely been circulated in the hands of a few. Perpetrated by many, yes. But that can easily be addressed by a genuine, meaningful call against racism and misogyny. Not by inciting people to go searching for invisible forces and applying guilt to people for characteristics that they cannot help. If a man is a decent person and treats women well, why should he “give up some of his privilege” because OTHER men are misogynist? The logic fails.

  • SoundandColor

    So you’re victim-blaming? Perks of being a feminist, I suppose.